読者です 読者をやめる 読者になる 読者になる

ゲイビ好き腐女子の部屋

ゲイビfandomと界隈のアレコレ。徹頭徹尾腐女子向けです。

Total Topを考える。Versとの対比から😈

 

Licoです。

今日は↓このエントリーにも書いたPositionの話の続きです。

geibijoshi.hatenablog.jp

ちょっとわたしの手に余る難しい話感がありますが、書きたいので頑張って書きます。

 

 

m.reddit.com

先ずは問題提起者の主張を読みます。

I came across this article and thought it was rather interesting.

Gay men's preferences study

I don't think that anything was particularly eye opening here, and it basically just reaffirmed what I already could discern with my own judgement, but then I started to get just a little bothered by it. I consider myself a very masculine guy, and I also think of my boyfriend the same way. As a matter of fact we are pretty much the stereotypical masculine picture of men. However, we both don't have a preference and are fully vers. I feel this is more common than not, but I really don't have sex talks with any of my friends to determine this. I'm more of a private person...however this is reddit.

Anyways, my question, or discussion here is are you vers? Do you have any opinions on the matter? Do you believe that someone actually can be fully vers? I certainly believe that a gay man can be vers and prefer top and bottom equally, but I have come across others who adamantly disagree with me. I don't really feel the need to fit into one label or another but it is out way of classifying and sorting...so I give it some merit.

彼自身は自分は男らしいタイプのGayで、彼の彼氏も同じタイプ。だけれども彼らは二人ともVers(リバ)でお互い掘ったり掘られたりしてるしどっちも好きだということ。

彼はTopもBottomも好きだし実際にするGayは存在するし、あえて自分に

「Topです」

「Bottomです」

と定義する必要性やメリットを感じないのだけど、他の人はどう思いますか?ということです。

 

それに対する意見がこちら↓。

As a Vers guy, this is just my opinion. I understand if it seems like I am reaching.

Thanks to stuff like gay porn and grindr, gay guys equate dick size to being a top in bed. This means more size queens exist rather they admit it or not.

So the reality is that more guys want to bottom for bigger dicks because they end up believing that bigger guys are common. But the other reality is that most guys are only average sized, which in turn leads to them bottoming instead because the other bottoms they tried to top have convinced them that bigger is better and they won't measure up.

So you are left with like 10 tops who all happen to be well endowed, but 50 average guys who are choosing to bottom not only because they are average, but because the tops they want to bottom for are becoming bottoms themselves, and that is because they haven't had the most luck finding those well endowed tops, because it is easier to forget that your own dick is not going to satisfy these guys if you just decide to bottom, because at that point, your dick is out of the picture. It's all about your ass.

But as a Vers guy, I don't have a preference for either.

What pissed me off is when a bottom never wants to try topping and everyone thinks it is awesome. But if a top never wants to try bottoming, he is apparently selfish. That is BULLSHIT.

ここで特筆すべきはVers側からの怒りの声 

「BottomがTopをしようとしないのは良くてTopがBottomをしようとしないのは自己中だっていうのはクソみたいな話だ」

巨根信仰のせいでTopになろうと思ったらち◯この大きさを晒す必要があり、自分は大きい方じゃないと思っている奴らは自分のち◯この大きさと向き合いたくないが為にBottomに甘んじるようになる(って本当???)っていうのも面白いですね。

 

I'm vers, but tend to enjoy topping more. Everyone is definitely entitled to like whatever they like, but it sucks when you want to date someone and they are a total top or total bottom. It just doesn't work for me and I get sexually frustrated. Also, I really like butts and have had some total tops get super freaked out if you go anywhere near their butt with a finger or tongue...it kinda ruins the moment.

Also, and this is completely my opinion, but the top comment says I tried bottoming and it's not for me. How much I enjoy sex as a whole and how much I enjoy topping or bottoming is HUGELY dependent on the other person. So when someone tells me they tried bottoming a couple times and just didn't like, I see it as a cop out. You can't tell me you won't like topping/bottoming for me, when you haven't topped/bottomed for me.

 ↑この意見を見ても分かるけれど、Total Topの反対はTotal BottomじゃなくてVersなんじゃないかなぁと思っています。

VersはBottomをする。Total TopはBottomをしない。っていう違いなんですけど。

Vers「セックスが楽しいかどうかは自分のPositionではなく、セックスのPartnerによって決まる」

Total Top/Btm「セックスにはパートナーよりもPositionが大事」

まあ、実際には両方大事だと思うんだけど

「一回も試してみないのに俺とTop/Bottomするのは嫌だというのはナンセンス」

っていうのも一理あるかなぁと思います。

 

このredditの質問者が読んだ記事というのが↓これになりますので、ご紹介します。

blogs.discovermagazine.com

どこかの研究機関で見た目でBottomかTopか分かるかどうかの研究をされたらしいです。

研究対象になったGayは自分で『Top』『Bottom』と自認している方のみ😓

それに対するVers(彼はBisexualでもある)の方の反論。

As a bisexual male, when I read about these kinds of studies, I'm always astounded that the people conducting them have such a limited/ignorant approach to LGBT people. They always omit the obvious, case in point: What about vers men?

For the uninitiated, there are at least 3 sex paradigms for men who sleep with other men (technically, there are 4, if you account for those that don't engage in anal intercourse at all): top, bottom, and versatile (those, like me, who enjoy both the insertive and receptive roles).

Moreover, being a bottom does not necessarily mean you're submissive, either in the bed or in your everyday life. Likewise, being a top does not mean you're inclined to be dominant in your interactions with others. I know plenty of tops who are mild-mannered and submissive, and I know even more bottoms who are "butch" and have the stereotypical alpha-male personalities.

Being a bottom or a top or vers does not preclude you from being dominant or submissive or whatever. As far as sex goes, I'm either dominant or submissive depending on whom I'm having sex with and the natural flow of our chemistry. In my everyday life, I'm not overtly masculine or feminine (which is really what this talk of "dominant role, submissive role" all boils down to, anyway). When are we going to learn that you can't always compartmentalize people into neat little boxes?

 insertiveな方(挿入する側)がdominative(主導権を握る)だとか、receptiveな方(挿入される側)がsubmissive(従属的)だとかはあり得ない。セックスの中の主導権はそんなのはその場の流れと相性で決まる。

 

redditで引用したVersの方と同じような意見ですよね。

うちの推しちゃんもVersなんですけど、インタビューで大体同じようなこと言ってたので、Versの方って大体こういう考えなのかなぁと思います。

 

Versの当事者の方の意見には、Gay男性、TopやBottomに対するステレオタイプ化した見方(Stereotyping)に対する反発が滲み出てるなぁと思います。

 

www.realjock.com

この質問かなり面白い……というか、色んな含みがあります。まずは質問。 

Question..guys who label themselves as either of the two...Why is it that they always end up being a btm? I've never met a guy that says he's vers that ever tried to top me.

If he did, I probably would have hit him b/c I'm not interested in trying to btm.

Is this a way for vers guys to try to sound "cool" b/c they go both ways (which is kinda like saying your bi to me), or is this a way of saying they don't like being called a btm b/c of the stereotypes attached to it? I don't understand why these things are such a big deal.

質問者はいわゆるTotal Top。

彼に近づいて来るVersが今まで一度も彼にTopをしようとしたことがない。

「あいつら、Versなんて言ってるけどただのBottomだろ?」

と言いたいらしい。

この彼はVersが何なのかよく分かってないなぁって思いました。

Versの人って

「相手に合わせてpositionを変える」

からTotal Topだって分かってる彼に敢えてBottom役を押し付けなかっただけじゃないのかな?

I'm a top because ass is what turns me on. A guy's dick never has mattered to me when it comes to sex. Granted, I'll do whatever is necessary to please him, but it's not something I care about.

Blow jobはするけどち◯こには興味がない。というTotal Topの方の意見もあり。

有名なTotal Topの某氏もRimmingはするけどBlow jobはしないので有名(?)だし、他のTotal Topも同じようなことを言っていたので、Total Topはち◯こに興味がない。あるいは

自分以外のち◯こに興味がない

っていうのは結構スタンダードなのかもしれないです。

実際、選り抜きの巨根じゃないとTopになれない🍆みたいなので仕方のないことなのかもしれませんね。